AILSA CHANG, HOST:
OK. Well, if we are going to believe the polls in this election - and I know that is a lot to ask - Democrats are expected to have a big night tonight. So what would a blue wave mean for Republicans? To help us answer that question, we're joined now by Republican Congressman Don Bacon of Nebraska. Welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
DON BACON: Well, thank you. Thanks for having me on.
CHANG: Thanks for being on. OK. So I know that polling places have not yet closed, but how are you feeling about tonight at this point?
BACON: Well, I do think the polls show, nationally, Democrats up by about eight points. It's like a eight-point generic polling differential. I think the bigger number is President Trump's favorables (ph) are about minus 25. So that's a heavy lift if you're in a purple district as a Republican. I would say that good candidates can overcome that. I overcame a minus eight environment in 2018. But you have to be able to show that you're your own person, that you're not a rubber stamp, that you've went against the grain on some issues. And for me, I've always disagreed with tariffs. It's not a long-standing conservative...
CHANG: Yeah.
BACON: ...Policy. In fact, Republicans haven't endorsed, like, tariffs since World War II. And also, I believe in standing up to Russia. So I've been able to carve my own thing.
CHANG: Yeah. I mean, you've been one of the few Republicans in the House who's been willing to outwardly critique President Trump. And I want to ask - well, let's start with your district because you are retiring from Congress, so you're not on the ballot tonight. There is a chance that your district in Nebraska is going to flip to Democrats. If that happens, Congressman Bacon, how do you explain that? 'Cause you managed to serve five terms in a row.
BACON: Yeah. Well, if I was running, I would still say it would be a tough race. I would not have it in the bank. You know, I would have to work hard, and I've had a concession speech and a victory speech all five general elections...
CHANG: (Laughter).
BACON: ...I've been in, right? You got to be prepared. I just - thankfully, I've had to do five victory speeches.
CHANG: But do you think something different is happening in your district this election season?
BACON: Well, the biggest issue is President Trump is significantly underwater with his favorables. And I think we have a great Republican who has run a great campaign. He could probably have used a million more dollars to get his story out on TV. But it's a heavy lift. When President Trump is minus 25 in Omaha, in the Omaha district here, it is hard.
CHANG: Right.
BACON: You got to be like - you have to play a perfect game and not make a single hiccup. And...
CHANG: Usually a reliably red district, yes?
BACON: Well, it went for Harris by five, and it went for Biden in 2020 by six.
CHANG: Ah, OK. OK.
BACON: And I've been the top Republican vote-getter here over 10 years, however, I've only been winning between one and five points. And so I would say - they call it the blue dot, and really, I think if you go before President Trump, we were reliably Republican. Like, Romney won it by seven, as an example.
CHANG: Well, let's zoom out wider than Omaha. If Republicans do end up seeing big losses tonight, do you take that, at some level, as a rejection of President Trump and the MAGA movement?
BACON: I do. I think - I'm one that thinks we have to have a fight for the soul of our party. You know, I got involved in politics at the age of 13 when Ronald Reagan ran in 1976 against Gerald Ford. I listened to his speeches. I became a believer in what he was saying. And the views of, you know, the Reagan principles are federalism, free trade, economic freedom, rule of law, you know, safety on our streets, you know, also being - having peace through strength and standing up to the bullies, like Russia. And all these principles that Reagan - and I think they worked, and I believe in them in my heart.
The problem is President Trump has endorsed or embraced tariffs, which is - you know, it's gone against the Republican principles going back to World War II. He has been weak on Russia, significantly weak on Russia. And so on a lot of these principles, he's not what I would call the old-fashioned Republican...
CHANG: The Reagan Republican.
BACON: ...And I think that's hurt us.
CHANG: Right. Well, you have said that if you - that you think if Republicans do poorly tonight, there will be an internal debate in your party. Can I ask you what you mean by that? A debate about what - about the party's relationship to the MAGA movement, about President Trump himself? You tell me.
BACON: Yeah. I would want to keep it more about our values and principles. And I would like to go back to what the platform had been for our party, like, for - since, like, World War II until, you know, George Bush. And - but what I want to do is I want to speak out. I want to go, you know, everywhere I get invited. I'm going to go to the National Press Club here in about two weeks and make a case for what real Republicanism is. But also, what do we need out of a future president?
And right now, what I see is our current president - but really it didn't start with him. It's been going back now for a while. We demagogue and we demonize the other side so bad, and then you can't work together to solve the deficit problem, healthcare, legal immigration, national security things. And so I want to be a proponent for let's stand up and be Americans here. If we want to be the superpower over the next 10 or 20 years, you got to solve these problems. You can't do it Republican only.
CHANG: And do you think - if election results tonight aren't great for Republicans, do you think more members of your party will also feel free to speak out against President Trump?
BACON: I do. And you'll see it in the primaries for 2028. And so there will be an arm wrestle here. Are we going to go the MAGA route with Vance, or are we going to go back to our roots and be maybe more Rubio-like or Nikki Haley-like, who I supported for the primaries last time.
CHANG: All right.
BACON: There will be a debate in the primaries no matter which...
CHANG: There will be a debate and potentially an arm wrestle. Thank you so much. Republican Congressman Don Bacon of Nebraska, it was great talking to you.
BACON: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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